> munna21977 said:
> How is franchise club like Dodsal or DSK Shivajian different then say Pune FC or Dempo? what new thing are they bringing. Presently they cannot even qualify thru 2nd Division. Just imagine Salgaocar finishing last place and getting relegated. they why should DSK shivajian be promoted?
Money. Which is what we need. Really the only problems with these clubs is their names and the cities they want to play in. Other than that I would not mind their automatic entry if they can provide a good basis for money, they study the market they are in before they decide to invest, they commit long-term, open a youth academy, and try to integrate with the community. And of course many other things for the league etc.
Right now Dodsal and DSK in their current forms should not have entry. The markets of Mumbai and Pune will not work for them. Unless they like to burn money on an investment that earns around 1,000-5,000 fans a game. Pune FC can only get 3,000 a game, what makes DSK think they can do better. Mumbai FC is the perfect club for Mumbai. Mumbai as a footballing market will only be successful if their is patentice. Essel Group and Mumbai FC have patience and dont mind slowly building their clubs. I doubt Dodsal would. DSK same.
Also the names. We already hear on facebook from Mumbaikars that Dodsal is a shit name and even the name "Mumbai Tigers FC" is shit as well. You will not create a long lasting fan base.
Dodsal's idea is that if they invest tons of money then they will gain a quick fan base like Manchester City did when their sugar daddy started investing. Sadly I dont think that will work in India with Indian football clubs. Its a work in progress that needs steady, slow growth and Dodsal will have that smacked in their faces if they remain in that city, with that name. Same with DSK.
whats wrong with DSK Shivajian they have a perfect name to connect with Marathi people
Well I dont mind DSK as a sponsorship name. After looking more closely into why clubs like United Sikkim and the Kolkata clubs like East Bengal and Mohun Bagan do it I dont care anymore about that. Sponsor + State/City name = Good. (Royal Challengers Bangalore for example).
However I still have a problem with using a name for ethnic purposes. Its reminds me of Mohammedan. I dont know, perhaps its because I am not Marathi myself. I just find it wrong to use a name for ethical purposes but if DSK can prove that within less than a year (2013-14 I-League) that they can use this name to attract a crowd of better than 3,000 a game like Pune FC then give it a whack.
Keep in mind that Pune FC also represent many things of Maharashtra (mainly Pune) history.
whats wrong with DSK Shivajian they have a perfect name to connect with Marathi people
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Well I dont mind DSK as a sponsorship name. After looking more closely into why clubs like United Sikkim and the Kolkata clubs like East Bengal and Mohun Bagan do it I dont care anymore about that. Sponsor + State/City name = Good. (Royal Challengers Bangalore for example).
However I still have a problem with using a name for ethnic purposes. Its reminds me of Mohammedan. I dont know, perhaps its because I am not Marathi myself. I just find it wrong to use a name for ethical purposes but if DSK can prove that within less than a year (2013-14 I-League) that they can use this name to attract a crowd of better than 3,000 a game like Pune FC then give it a whack.
Keep in mind that Pune FC also represent many things of Maharashtra (mainly Pune) history.
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there is no problem with the name if they play in maharashtra with that name they will get more supporters than pune in less time
most of us Marathi people are quite close to shivaji
But how many people will go just for that name. What else about the club will give the Marathi's (in this case) the drive towards this team. That is why I like City/State based names. Much broader fan-base potential and it is easier to connect to the community and the fans.
Here it is just an ethnicity and so far only represented by name. Nothing else.
I understands what it means to the people. He was great man and I remember learning about him 2 years ago but other than name and money what else do they have to build a long-term fan base. I understand the need for money and all that but at the same time we need clubs that are stable and viable on the long-term.
I dont think DSK will do that. However there is still a chance I can be persuaded in the other direction. I would be interested to see at what DSK would do once they are in I-League.
One thing for sure: DSK could potentially bring an end to Pune FC. Two clubs can not survive in Pune.
You have some very salient points about the merits of promotion/relegation versus franchise based or expansion teams.
There is also a lot of merit to the points made by you & others regarding clubs having to spend on youth development & or fan activation
BUT your headstrong approach on certain themes is verging on the ridiculous.
You are not in India right now , and when guys like @Rudra and @Ashlesh and others are making a very valid point about the connect felt by most Maharashtrians & the clubs name Shivajians ( DSK bought out the club and thus they are DSK Shivajians) you should listen and try to understand this , rather than just blurt out an inane response that does little other than ensure you are top of the posts lists !!
Whilst you bring a lot this forum, there are aspects of Indian governance and ground realities that you are so disconnected from.
It's not meant as a dig at you, the reality is Maharshatra has the business capital of India and a lot of wealthy individuals in the 2nd tier cities. Pune also has a very large and diverse population due to the students.
Speaking to locals in this city , they certainly would welcome to teams , Pune FC representing the north and Shivajians the south, if you want to put in simple geographic terms. A mass of the Kohlapur footballing fans/players would certainly connect with Shivajians.
At the end of the day , if this or any other club is willing to build an Academy ( read fields , artificial and natural to FIFA standards ) and reduce our dependence on FIFA hand outs, then this is GOOD for Indian football.
Their new facilities could ensure the Indian national team has a regular base to prepare for their matches ... this cant be bad
whether they should get direct entry or not is a WHOLE OTHER DEBATE.....
These clubs are good for Indian football, if they are willing to invest into the aspects that we all agree are lacking in Indian football.
I agree with you and I did mention that when talking to Ashlesh. Here is that quote: "I dont know, perhaps its because I am not Marathi myself." So I accept that I am not in India so I dont have a first hand experience and when I did go to India my interest in Indian football was not as great as it is today to really observe it.
I feel that if I did go live in India then I would have a much better understanding of all this. And I will accept it eventually. What you guys usually see is me in denial. DSK... I dont mind them... I am just in denial about them actually bringing anything good to the table.
Now back to the areas I can actually contribute to whether I live there or not. DSK and Pune FC are both Pune clubs. DSK have an official facebook and officially recognize themselves as a Pune club. If they were willing to shift base then that would be brilliant news. Either Kolhapur or Nagpur would be brilliant as then they can have more access to more potential fans. Although from what I hear from people here I would prefere Kolhapur.
Let Pune FC have Pune and have DSK start something in Kolhapur. They would already have a great stadium, energetic youth, and more local support than both Mumbai and Pune combine.
As for direct entry. I dont mind it. Its great and what we need. Lets have direct entry for those clubs that are ready to take that step up and who are willing to invest in Indian football to make it a better product and then we create a 2nd Division where we can take trust to another level and allow clubs in via a more viable and lucrative 2nd Division.
Now where I am not happy with the direct entry is that the AIFF can talk about these magical people and all that but how are they sure a club in Bangalore or Delhi will work. They have not proven it yet and all the while, while they are talking about new "100 crore" franchises they are not doing anything to fix the problems with the current clubs.
Eventually we will have an I-League where half the clubs are glamorous and rich while the others are poor and will fold from lack of funding.
Comments
> munna21977 said:
> Ambition-On the field-well Air India and ONGC are not at the bottom two positions despite not playing a single game at Mumbai.
> munna21977 said:
> How is franchise club like Dodsal or DSK Shivajian different then say Pune FC or Dempo? what new thing are they bringing. Presently they cannot even qualify thru 2nd Division.
Just imagine Salgaocar finishing last place and getting relegated. they why should DSK shivajian be promoted?
@Arsenalkid700
> rudra said:
> @Arsenalkid700
> Ashlesh said:
> > Arsenalkid700 said:
> > > rudra said:
> > > @Arsenalkid700
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> >
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I understands what it means to the people. He was great man and I remember learning about him 2 years ago but other than name and money what else do they have to build a long-term fan base. I understand the need for money and all that but at the same time we need clubs that are stable and viable on the long-term.
@arsenalkid....
You have some very salient points about the merits of promotion/relegation versus franchise based or expansion teams.
There is also a lot of merit to the points made by you & others regarding clubs having to spend on youth development & or fan activation
BUT your headstrong approach on certain themes is verging on the ridiculous.
You are not in India right now , and when guys like @Rudra and @Ashlesh and others are making a very valid point about the connect felt by most Maharashtrians & the clubs name Shivajians ( DSK bought out the club and thus they are DSK Shivajians) you should listen and try to understand this , rather than just blurt out an inane response that does little other than ensure you are top of the posts lists !!
Whilst you bring a lot this forum, there are aspects of Indian governance and ground realities that you are so disconnected from.
It's not meant as a dig at you, the reality is Maharshatra has the business capital of India and a lot of wealthy individuals in the 2nd tier cities. Pune also has a very large and diverse population due to the students.
Speaking to locals in this city , they certainly would welcome to teams , Pune FC representing the north and Shivajians the south, if you want to put in simple geographic terms. A mass of the Kohlapur footballing fans/players would certainly connect with Shivajians.
At the end of the day , if this or any other club is willing to build an Academy ( read fields , artificial and natural to FIFA standards ) and reduce our dependence on FIFA hand outs, then this is GOOD for Indian football.
Their new facilities could ensure the Indian national team has a regular base to prepare for their matches ... this cant be bad
whether they should get direct entry or not is a WHOLE OTHER DEBATE.....
These clubs are good for Indian football, if they are willing to invest into the aspects that we all agree are lacking in Indian football.
I agree with you and I did mention that when talking to Ashlesh. Here is that quote: "I dont know, perhaps its because I am not Marathi myself." So I accept that I am not in India so I dont have a first hand experience and when I did go to India my interest in Indian football was not as great as it is today to really observe it.
" East Bengal and mohun bagan have fan base but what that have given to national team?"
Whatever Indian football we have to talk about is because of those two clubs.
national league was started so other indian clubs can play with those clubs.
what ever interest in indian football we and media have just because of those clubs.
without those clubs this corporate clubs whould have had an I-league to get direct entry in.
I guess we need a new thread for DSK Shivajian.