@rudra I think the Air India and ONGC decision was also a TEN Action decision as well. They already had to change their schedule once for Mohun Bagan and I doubt they want to shuffle it around yet again, this time for two teams.
Personally I dont care if we have to wait till the end of the season to see the back of Air India and ONGC. I doubt they will pass the AFC Licensing Criteria by then anyway.
As for the reactions above. I personally dont care about Mohun Bagan. I thought that they should not have been fined in the first place. Good job with the fine. And Air India and ONGC is a TEN Action problem I am guess (like with Fransa-Pax when Zee said not to relegate them).
The problem here is a lack of a proper business model. The 2nd Division will, yet again, be a monster with 27 teams most likely and will include shitty clubs like NISA or Green Valley or PSU HAL who dont even have the proper needs to be a potential 1st tier side. The I-League U20 will yet again be a failure as it will yet again be a short, tournament style affair in which most teams will only play, at max, 6 games and at most for the rest... 12. How is that helping youth development in India?
How are we supposed to encourage the I-League clubs to start proper youth programs if the actual league the AIFF runs is no valuable enough.
Also what is up with the I-League for next season? 16 teams? Please, by gods mercy, tell me what justifes this hadius act. We have 14 clubs... all of which has millions and millions of problems and the AIFF aint doing anything to fix it. Instead we are adding to it. For gods sake you only expand the number of clubs when you are successful! Not when every single teams have trillions of problems! THINK AIFF!
Also the franchises. Bangalore and Delhi? Really? What bullshit told them that these two cities are viable for a franchise. Also why are we calling them franchises? Do they belong to the I-League? No. These clubs would be separate entities from the league and are thus NOT franchises. Also I am ALL for no promotion/relegation but for only 2 clubs. Why? Its either pro/rel for the whole league or no pro/rel for the whole league. You dont just select 2 clubs.
And going back to Bangalore and Delhi: Why? What proof is their that we can just drop and investor into Bangalore and automatically they will gain support? HAL failed and unless this is the final of a tournament then Delhi wont provide you much. You need years of research and planning before having teams here... not less than a year. And unless these owners see a return on their investment and they see that this is a great club with support (that will actually pay for tickets) then they are done. They will stop pouring money into a dead business.
Overall I think this meeting exposed the AIFF for who they really are. They do good things but they do many, many bad things and use the good things to sugarcoat it all. And IMG is their messing everything up. I still believe that Robert Baan was influenced by IMG and their "vision" while making his "Super Plan".
The only great thing about Indian football right now is the up and coming players. Other than that Indian football has nothing.
Wow..MB have some serious power with aiff..aiff have really messed it up.. 2 crore is a joke..mind u MB offi ials will b celebrating tonight..they have made a mockery of aiff authority n Indian football.
Aiff r really clueless n spineless.the root cause of MB ills r still running d club...now all will be fogotten..things will be back ro normal.
> silicon3 said:
> Wow..MB have some serious power with aiff..aiff have really messed it up.. 2 crore is a joke..mind u MB offi ials will b celebrating tonight..they have made a mockery of aiff authority n Indian football.
>
> Aiff r really clueless n spineless.the root cause of MB ills r still running d club...now all will be fogotten..things will be back ro normal.
>
> Qn is who has made a fool of whom?
Fans who support and watch Indian Football are fools !
> ashindia said:
> > silicon3 said:
> > Wow..MB have some serious power with aiff..aiff have really messed it up.. 2 crore is a joke..mind u MB offi ials will b celebrating tonight..they have made a mockery of aiff authority n Indian football.
> >
> > Aiff r really clueless n spineless.the root cause of MB ills r still running d club...now all will be fogotten..things will be back ro normal.
> >
> > Qn is who has made a fool of whom?
>
>
Fans who support and watch Indian Football are fools !
That is true. Many supporters, esspecially on facebook, dont actually think about it.
For example: 16 teams. "Oh that would be a great idea. More support and then we can become pan-Indian. This is what Indian football needed."
I dont think Indian football fans are fools, and yes there are a lot of problems in the I-league but i dont see a problem with their being 16 teams. More teams more competition. I also like the promotion/relegation system even if it is not perfect.
> kali007 said:
> I dont think Indian football fans are fools, and yes there are a lot of problems in the I-league but i dont see a problem with their being 16 teams. More teams more competition. I also like the promotion/relegation system even if it is not perfect.
But why? When many of the current clubs in the I-League are failing the AIFF is thinking of expanding 2 newer clubs into the league. The ideal thing to do is to stop this idea of over expansion and to work with the clubs we have now. I have seen first hand what over expansion can do. Many American sports leagues have done, the Premier League did it, and Australia and Korea did it. It does not go well because you know that the other clubs are crap.
The old NASL in America died partly due to over expansion of the league. The league went from 6 teams to 20 in 5 years. The result was horrible and the league died in 1984... 9 years after expanding to 20 and 6 years after expanding to 24 teams. It is not good unless the other clubs are in good nick.
Look at the current I-League right now. How are the clubs financially and in stability. Even the USFC coach complains because of lack of budget and if it was not for URO then USFC may not even be existing right now. Look at Goan clubs. How many people pay for tickets their? Now its okay but before not at all. Barely any ticket revenue between any of the clubs. Until we improve many things with the current set of teams why should we expand. It will only make everything worst clubs. More expenses for trips, bigger schedules which leads to more salaries and also their are no good markets in India currently.
And that is where I go against promotion/relegation. I like it but why now. India can not do it right now. I-League will fail even more with it. Look at the J.League. Started in 1993 when Japan could barely make the World Cup or Asian Cup. Then in 1999 they added a 2nd Division... 6 years later. When they were ready. The AIFF did it after one year. And that is without proper consideration. Yes their are many benefits but think of the bad things which, to me, over power the benefits:
What if USFC or SLFC get relegated? Good bye. The clubs need to stay to survive. What if East Bengal or Mohun Bagan get relegated? Good bye. McDowells and Kingfisher wont stay. Reason being is because when you are relegated you go no where. Their is NO 2nd Division in India. We have the I-League 2nd Division but that is not a league. That is a 2-3 month tournament which has many controversies in terms of stadium choice, rules, and even the teams that are in it. The teams are not even thought about. Why are SESA Football Academy in the 2nd Division? They are an Academy!!! We need professional football clubs and clubs from outside Goa and Kolkata.
Clubs that have a vision for the future of Indian football. Clubs that want to be in it. Clubs that know that they will not make money automatically but that if they continue then they will gain a profit soon. Clubs that want to open an Academy. Clubs that want to give proper contracts. Clubs that want to have scouts. Clubs that want to integrate into their city community. Clubs that want to integrate into the schools. Clubs that to be professional about being a football club and currently we do not have that because sadly before all this you need money, a stadium, sponsors, youth team, and other basics. NO Indian football club outside the I-League has that.
In fact some clubs in the I-League dont even have that. That is the reality of Indian football right now and if we continue to continue the policy of "Just win the 2nd Division and you are in." mentality then Indian football will not go anywhere. We will continue to always be the sleeping giant. We will never rise in domestic football and that is the reality.
@Arsenalkid700 In USA soccer is still a new sport-thus they were able to make a completely franchise system (MLS) with no relegation. But fans there spend awful lot of money in season tickets, merchandise. I was reading about their old NASL-why it collapsed? They made weird experiments-clock moving towards zero, 35 yard off-side, penalty shootout instead of drawn match and over dependence on foreign players. soccer in USA has a huge potential-especially in Hispanic community. But for an average small town Joe in his pick-up truck, Soccer is still a foreign sport.
By contrast-Look at Mexico League system. Clubs are fan based there. They have successful 4-5 tier system with promotion and relegation. India is a curious case. Our football is more then 100 years old but it never evolved-never developed. What was AIFF doing between 1950 to 1990??? given a choice, I would prefer Mexico model for India but it will take years to develop. There are so many state associations which do nothing. we seriously lack in infrastructure/stadiums, coaching, academies and fan numbers. Money is limited here.
But notice something about the Mexico system which is just like the English style or the Euro model... all the clubs are historic. With the exception of 2 clubs out of the 18 in the Liga MX (Mexico's first tier) all of the clubs are many years old. How many clubs have a lot of history behind them. I dont mean the 1988 of Churchill Brothers or the 1983 of Shillong Lajong but the 1940s of Prayag United, East Bengal, Mohun Bagan teams.
The Mexican clubs have a completely different "footballing culture" to India and the United States which is what makes their system successful. The sport is the number #1 sport their and not just in Barcelona or Real Madrid fans but in Club America or Pachuca fans as well... local, domestic fans. India does not have that and the United States is slowly growing up what I call the hierarchy. I already consider MLS better supported than NBA and NHL. Stats and facts.
Also in Mexico the clubs are old and historic and the owners of the clubs are rich and smart. They took advantage of the fact that football was the number one sport and brought in fans. Many fans. And they have been growing their fan bases for years.
Also do you know the origins of promotion/relegation? Why it started? England had to many clubs coming up. They needed to find a way to set all these clubs in a league to play and maybe in the hope that they can one day make it to the Football League Division One (Former English top tier). Back then you could do that. You can create a random PUB team and still realistically hope to be in the Premier League (I think Chelsea were formed from a bar if I am not mistaken). Same in Mexico. Many clubs and they needed a way to organize them all and they did it. Now it is much harder and thus why stronger provisions are being made in terms of pro/rel. Pro clubs, stadium regulations etc. It is not the same.
The Mexican system wont work in India for those reasons. We do not have the support nor the history to implement it.
Now this may come as a shock to people on here but I do not want the American MLS system in India. I want promotion/relegation in India. I REALLY DO! And I think it can work realistically and viably. You all had me wrong... all of you think that I want an MLS league structure and while that may have been true over the Late Spring/Early Summer months my stance has changed for the good and will not change again. Yes when I see the IPL and MLS I think about it again but I rubbish the idea. A franchise-league will not work in India for association football. Why? Well let me put it like this:
MLS is a separate entity from the US Soccer Federation. We do not affiliate ourselves with it that much. We will report news from it but not actually work together. Only thing the US Soccer Fed does for MLS is sanction it as the top tier in America. Now will AIFF do that? No. The AIFF wont stick back and let the top Indian league be a franchise league and be a separate entity. Because IMG-Reliance wont allow it. They want their version and they are so hell bent on franchises working in India that they will not relinquish power of such a league to the clubs and a separate organization.
There! I just gave 1 reason for why MLS can not work in India. It will not and never will work in India.
NOW! What I do believe will work is a system on the lines of what Japan and South Korea are doing. Everyone should know this by now. How the J.League and K-League (Now K League Classic) started. They started with NO promotion/relegation.
What the J.League and K-League did when they were formed were take the top 10 most organized and professional teams in Japan and South Korea respectively and they formed a new league with no pro/rel with the hope that these clubs, and these clubs only, will build a long lasting relationship not just with Japanese football or South Korean football but for their communities that they are based in. And we see the results and for Japan by the time they reached the 1999 season they knew they had too many clubs and that their were clubs not in the J.League in the former Japanese Football League that wanted to play in the J.League to and that they were professional enough to do so and thus came the J.League 2nd Division.
That is what I want in India. Start off with 12-14 clubs and dont do promotion/relegation for a few years. TEMPORARILY. And once we reach around 16-18 clubs and we see that there are 6 other clubs not in the I-League that are ready for the league we can create a brand new TRUE 2nd DIVISION! One that runs parallel to the I-League. One in which after EACH TEAM PLAYS OVER 20 GAMES and then they get promoted. One in which the clubs relegated from the I-League wont have to worry because they are actually being relegated.
This is the perfect way for any DEVELOPMENTAL footballing country to work. Japan started the 100 PROFESSIONAL teams in 100 years goal in 1998. At that time they had 18 professional clubs. Now they have 40 current professional clubs. That is not even counting the amount that were relegated to the Japanese Football League.
The main point there is that in just 14 years of the 100 clubs goal that Japan already has created over 22 more professional clubs and may have only be half-way done with the goal. Perhaps a kid who grew up in 1998 will actually grow up to see the goal accomplished long before the year 2098 occurs.
That is what I want in India. It will take longer for Indian football to do what Japan or South Korea did but it is very accomplishable and viable in the current environment. I truly believe in this system and I truly believe that this is the one for India.
Comments
@rudra I think the Air India and ONGC decision was also a TEN Action decision as well. They already had to change their schedule once for Mohun Bagan and I doubt they want to shuffle it around yet again, this time for two teams.
As for the reactions above. I personally dont care about Mohun Bagan. I thought that they should not have been fined in the first place. Good job with the fine. And Air India and ONGC is a TEN Action problem I am guess (like with Fransa-Pax when Zee said not to relegate them).
Wow..MB have some serious power with aiff..aiff have really messed it up.. 2 crore is a joke..mind u MB offi ials will b celebrating tonight..they have made a mockery of aiff authority n Indian football.
Aiff r really clueless n spineless.the root cause of MB ills r still running d club...now all will be fogotten..things will be back ro normal.
Qn is who has made a fool of whom?
> silicon3 said:
> Wow..MB have some serious power with aiff..aiff have really messed it up.. 2 crore is a joke..mind u MB offi ials will b celebrating tonight..they have made a mockery of aiff authority n Indian football.
>
> Aiff r really clueless n spineless.the root cause of MB ills r still running d club...now all will be fogotten..things will be back ro normal.
>
> Qn is who has made a fool of whom?
Fans who support and watch Indian Football are fools !
> ashindia said:
> > silicon3 said:
> > Wow..MB have some serious power with aiff..aiff have really messed it up.. 2 crore is a joke..mind u MB offi ials will b celebrating tonight..they have made a mockery of aiff authority n Indian football.
> >
> > Aiff r really clueless n spineless.the root cause of MB ills r still running d club...now all will be fogotten..things will be back ro normal.
> >
> > Qn is who has made a fool of whom?
>
>
Fans who support and watch Indian Football are fools !
I dont think Indian football fans are fools, and yes there are a lot of problems in the I-league but i dont see a problem with their being 16 teams. More teams more competition. I also like the promotion/relegation system even if it is not perfect.
> kali007 said:
> I dont think Indian football fans are fools, and yes there are a lot of problems in the I-league but i dont see a problem with their being 16 teams. More teams more competition. I also like the promotion/relegation system even if it is not perfect.
@Arsenalkid700
In USA soccer is still a new sport-thus they were able to make a completely franchise system (MLS) with no relegation. But fans there spend awful lot of money in season tickets, merchandise. I was reading about their old NASL-why it collapsed? They made weird experiments-clock moving towards zero, 35 yard off-side, penalty shootout instead of drawn match and over dependence on foreign players. soccer in USA has a huge potential-especially in Hispanic community. But for an average small town Joe in his pick-up truck, Soccer is still a foreign sport.
By contrast-Look at Mexico League system. Clubs are fan based there. They have successful 4-5 tier system with promotion and relegation.
India is a curious case. Our football is more then 100 years old but it never evolved-never developed. What was AIFF doing between 1950 to 1990??? given a choice, I would prefer Mexico model for India but it will take years to develop. There are so many state associations which do nothing. we seriously lack in infrastructure/stadiums, coaching, academies and fan numbers. Money is limited here.
But notice something about the Mexico system which is just like the English style or the Euro model... all the clubs are historic. With the exception of 2 clubs out of the 18 in the Liga MX (Mexico's first tier) all of the clubs are many years old. How many clubs have a lot of history behind them. I dont mean the 1988 of Churchill Brothers or the 1983 of Shillong Lajong but the 1940s of Prayag United, East Bengal, Mohun Bagan teams.