If fans attendance was only criterion in football, EB & MB would have won every trophy of the world since big bang and India ranked number one in FIFA ranking. Also I never seen good attendance by EB / MB in AFC matches. Its just a cult that you need to support either EB or MB in WB. Tollygaunge Aggrami, Prayag played in I league for quite some times. Have you seen great fan followings? Opposing Reliance is one thing, opposing sponsors who still invest (donate) money in Indian football is another thing. In India if somebody invests in worst performing stocks will get more return than from investing in football. Bengal football desperately needed an alternative with different fan culture, invest in infra, having own stadia and youth teams which ATK started providing but with merger they died not MB. Why there is no Siligury United? No Bardhaman FC or Durgapur FC? Why no Maldah or Murshidabad United in I league? Why every Bengali lad has to travel to Kolkata to become a footballer? Rajat Ghosh Dastidar was doing a fantastic job since beginning with team selection but now 'Karmakarta' s taken over. I am pretty sure ATKMB's team building (dumping) is now totally by Debashish and Srinjay not by Habas. The sooner we get rid of Nitu, Debashis, Tutu etc from Indian football the better. As per me Nitu is more harm full than Nita for Indian football.
I am not interested in moving from Kashmir to Kolkata only to get lynched by disgruntled fans. We will keep supporting and cheering for ATK from Kashmir and rest of India.
Bengal football desperately needed an alternative with different fan culture, invest in infra, having own stadia and youth teams which ATK started providing but with merger they died not MB.
@dhritiman7: Please explain what sort of fan culture, invest in infra and youth teams that ATK provided
"I am pretty sure ATKMB's team building (dumping) is now totally by Debashish and Srinjay not by Habas."--Can you provide any evidence of that?
I 100 per cent support your contention that Bengal football is too Kolkata-centric and no effort has been made to spread it to other parts of Bengal.
Fan's attendance is certainly not the only criterion in football, agreed but nowhere did @Deb_Ban and @Lord_pessi make this point, they were only countering the fact that ATK's attendance was higher than those of EB and MB. Also one cannot totally neglect the fan/supporters; without connect with the fans, lack of a sporting culture, many clubs with "sponsors" and corporate clubs have shut down or shifted base.
EB and MB have not won every trophy in the world but they have been the two most dominant clubs in their heydays, they had, at least in the past, provided opportunities to a lot of footballers. You would surely agree that it is not the sole responsibility of EB and MB to ensure that India attains top spot in FIFA ranking. Nawab Bhattacharya, in a recent interview, said that it is very easy to criticize the officials of the Big Two and the AIFF (who are indeed much to be blamed) but if one has the desire, then one can, in spite of financial constraints and AIFF apathy, run a football club, just as United SC, Pathachakra and other small clubs in Bengal are doing at the moment. But most people simply do not have that mentality.
Where I wholeheartedly agree with you is that the Big Two, in spite of their huge fan base and their popularity, simply failed to build on their success. From the 70s and certainly from the 80s, they more or less stopped local scouting, failed to invest in youth teams and along with the AIFF, led the football in the country to a downward spiral. The Nitus, Kalyans and the Tutus were only interested in feathering their own nests and there is no gainsaying that such elements need to be weeded out from our football administration.
However, I am of the view that Nita, along with her cohorts in the AIFF are, as toxic as the 'kormokortas'. by slow-poisoning the I-League without creating a viable alternative (I still cannot call the ISL a 'viable alternative'), they are as much to blame for the destruction of the Indian football ecosystem.
I respect your view. Regarding evidence part, I will certainly not provide evidence even if I have it. I am not here to satisfy or report to anyone.Its my opinion and I am free to express it. You may not necessarily agree with it. I do not respect Nawab also. Just do not let me open the pandora's box. What do you know about doping and got-ups happen in leagues? What do you know about politics which discriminates talents? Donot you here about sexual harassment happen with female athlete? Do they always win in court with evidence? One player scored in a got-up match where he was not suppose to score and he is an auto rikshwa driver now. I do not have evidence for you but that is not changing reality brother. No body will be able to provide you any evidence but those are real. I have been a part of academy for a long long time since my school days and do not need any lecture how tough is it to run things without any viable financial model. We have produced players who represented clubs and national level referees with own pocket money and later part of salary. Its not solely club's responsibility but not solely depends on govt or federation either. Have not seen any effort from EB or MB officials to build any infra so far apart from decorating their tents and feeding biriyani and egg rice during club election. Whatever view you have I respect but do not ever try to dig at me for what I know from my experience.
I have never tried to "dig" at you (whatever that might mean) or any other member, honestly. You are free not to provide evidence but then when you do not do so, you are also exposing yourself to opposing viewpoints also, isn't it?
it is because I respect you and all other members here that I expressed my opinion about this matter. You are not here to satisfy or report to anyone granted but so are all the other members.
"What do you know about doping and got-ups happen in leagues? What do you know about politics which discriminates talents? Donot you here about sexual harassment happen with female athlete? Do they always win in court with evidence? One player scored in a got-up match where he was not suppose to score and he is an auto rikshwa driver now. I do not have evidence for you but that is not changing reality brother. No body will be able to provide you any evidence but those are real."
I know nothing, brother....Of course, there are many many such underhand things happening in football and you along with many other eminent members are in the know about it but where have I disagreed with it?
"I have been a part of academy for a long long time since my school days and do not need any lecture how tough is it to run things without any viable financial model. We have produced players who represented clubs and national level referees with own pocket money and later part of salary." --Kudos to you for that but where is my "lecture"? Does offering one's opinion count as "lecture" nowadays? When I said "Please explain" and asked for 'evidence", it was not meant to be a 'lecture' but to know and understand your viewpoint. is that necessarily bad?
Since you are in such a privileged position, when you are in the "know" of so many things firsthand of Indian football, my questions were directed to knowing or learning more from you, never to underestimate you or denigrate you. In fact, the very tone and tenor of my words where I agree with half of what you said with the "Cheers'' indicating a very friendly engagement with you and your knowledge was quite within the bounds of modesty and decorum I would say.
Its not solely club's responsibility but not solely depends on govt or federation either. Have not seen any effort from EB or MB officials to build any infra so far apart from decorating their tents and feeding biriyani and egg rice during club election-- This is what I have more or less said, both the clubs and the federation are equally guilty of the demise of football in the country and yes, nowadays the Big Two have not done anything to build infra. You have not disproved my main points--the question of ATK's providing infra, fan culture, youth teams. This is not what I have invented on the spur of the moment but what many members, including veterans, have said at different times in the forum
"Do not ever try to dig at me for what I know from my experience."--in common parlance, this sentence would count as threat I think...it seems that your experience can not be challenged by any other person. Certainly I, as a novice, am not in any way qualified to challenge you but someone might have even greater experience of Indian football than you.
All that you said in your post is that you know from personal experience many things which happens in Indian football but are never brought to the surface and your being associated with football academies gives you the right to know more about our football ecosystem than me -- a person whom you hardly know.
I wish you well and am extremely sorry to have disturbed your composure and evoked such a reaction from you...apologies!!
There will be another 20 teams like ATK who will come and go in next hundred years,MB and EB will still be there . Once FSDL realises that they can't make any more money from indian football let's see what happens to ISL clubs apart from BFC and FC Goa . These clubs don't even have proper youth teams , all they do is pay FSDL expecting huge profits,say let's football for 2 months and disappear for rest of the year . Also Once relegation starts they will shutdown one by one .
"There will be another 20 teams like ATK who will come and go in next hundred years,MB and EB will still be there"
They will be there...just survive or exist or stay afloat. Just that. But with a good management with vision, can do more. I am not saying about a corporate management. But a young (not in an age sense) vibrant management with no other hidden agendas.
Agree on the management part . Officials need to go ,they just want to show their power and satisfy their ego and are not interested in the sport. Both the clubs should be in the lines of borussia dortmund model . They should list up shares for funding .With miliions of fanbase and also with good sponsors they won't be finding difficulties to raise funds .If they can do this ,the clubs will truly be people's clubs .
Comments
Also I never seen good attendance by EB / MB in AFC matches. Its just a cult that you need to support either EB or MB in WB. Tollygaunge Aggrami, Prayag played in I league for quite some times. Have you seen great fan followings?
Opposing Reliance is one thing, opposing sponsors who still invest (donate) money in Indian football is another thing. In India if somebody invests in worst performing stocks will get more return than from investing in football.
Bengal football desperately needed an alternative with different fan culture, invest in infra, having own stadia and youth teams which ATK started providing but with merger they died not MB.
Why there is no Siligury United? No Bardhaman FC or Durgapur FC? Why no Maldah or Murshidabad United in I league? Why every Bengali lad has to travel to Kolkata to become a footballer?
Rajat Ghosh Dastidar was doing a fantastic job since beginning with team selection but now 'Karmakarta' s taken over. I am pretty sure ATKMB's team building (dumping) is now totally by Debashish and Srinjay not by Habas.
The sooner we get rid of Nitu, Debashis, Tutu etc from Indian football the better. As per me Nitu is more harm full than Nita for Indian football.
I am not interested in moving from Kashmir to Kolkata only to get lynched by disgruntled fans. We will keep supporting and cheering for ATK from Kashmir and rest of India.
@dhritiman7: Please explain what sort of fan culture, invest in infra and youth teams that ATK provided
"I am pretty sure ATKMB's team building (dumping) is now totally by Debashish and Srinjay not by Habas."--Can you provide any evidence of that?
I 100 per cent support your contention that Bengal football is too Kolkata-centric and no effort has been made to spread it to other parts of Bengal.
Fan's attendance is certainly not the only criterion in football, agreed but nowhere did @Deb_Ban and @Lord_pessi make this point, they were only countering the fact that ATK's attendance was higher than those of EB and MB. Also one cannot totally neglect the fan/supporters; without connect with the fans, lack of a sporting culture, many clubs with "sponsors" and corporate clubs have shut down or shifted base.
EB and MB have not won every trophy in the world but they have been the two most dominant clubs in their heydays, they had, at least in the past, provided opportunities to a lot of footballers. You would surely agree that it is not the sole responsibility of EB and MB to ensure that India attains top spot in FIFA ranking. Nawab Bhattacharya, in a recent interview, said that it is very easy to criticize the officials of the Big Two and the AIFF (who are indeed much to be blamed) but if one has the desire, then one can, in spite of financial constraints and AIFF apathy, run a football club, just as United SC, Pathachakra and other small clubs in Bengal are doing at the moment. But most people simply do not have that mentality.
Where I wholeheartedly agree with you is that the Big Two, in spite of their huge fan base and their popularity, simply failed to build on their success. From the 70s and certainly from the 80s, they more or less stopped local scouting, failed to invest in youth teams and along with the AIFF, led the football in the country to a downward spiral. The Nitus, Kalyans and the Tutus were only interested in feathering their own nests and there is no gainsaying that such elements need to be weeded out from our football administration.
However, I am of the view that Nita, along with her cohorts in the AIFF are, as toxic as the 'kormokortas'. by slow-poisoning the I-League without creating a viable alternative (I still cannot call the ISL a 'viable alternative'), they are as much to blame for the destruction of the Indian football ecosystem.
Cheers!
I do not respect Nawab also. Just do not let me open the pandora's box.
What do you know about doping and got-ups happen in leagues? What do you know about politics which discriminates talents? Donot you here about sexual harassment happen with female athlete? Do they always win in court with evidence? One player scored in a got-up match where he was not suppose to score and he is an auto rikshwa driver now. I do not have evidence for you but that is not changing reality brother.
No body will be able to provide you any evidence but those are real.
I have been a part of academy for a long long time since my school days and do not need any lecture how tough is it to run things without any viable financial model. We have produced players who represented clubs and national level referees with own pocket money and later part of salary.
Its not solely club's responsibility but not solely depends on govt or federation either.
Have not seen any effort from EB or MB officials to build any infra so far apart from decorating their tents and feeding biriyani and egg rice during club election.
Whatever view you have I respect but do not ever try to dig at me for what I know from my experience.
I have never tried to "dig" at you (whatever that might mean) or any other member, honestly. You are free not to provide evidence but then when you do not do so, you are also exposing yourself to opposing viewpoints also, isn't it?
it is because I respect you and all other members here that I expressed my opinion about this matter. You are not here to satisfy or report to anyone granted but so are all the other members.
"What do you know about doping and got-ups happen in leagues? What do you know about politics which discriminates talents? Donot you here about sexual harassment happen with female athlete? Do they always win in court with evidence? One player scored in a got-up match where he was not suppose to score and he is an auto rikshwa driver now. I do not have evidence for you but that is not changing reality brother.
No body will be able to provide you any evidence but those are real."
I know nothing, brother....Of course, there are many many such underhand things happening in football and you along with many other eminent members are in the know about it but where have I disagreed with it?
"I have been a part of academy for a long long time since my school days and do not need any lecture how tough is it to run things without any viable financial model. We have produced players who represented clubs and national level referees with own pocket money and later part of salary." --Kudos to you for that but where is my "lecture"? Does offering one's opinion count as "lecture" nowadays? When I said "Please explain" and asked for 'evidence", it was not meant to be a 'lecture' but to know and understand your viewpoint. is that necessarily bad?
Since you are in such a privileged position, when you are in the "know" of so many things firsthand of Indian football, my questions were directed to knowing or learning more from you, never to underestimate you or denigrate you. In fact, the very tone and tenor of my words where I agree with half of what you said with the "Cheers'' indicating a very friendly engagement with you and your knowledge was quite within the bounds of modesty and decorum I would say.
Its not solely club's responsibility but not solely depends on govt or federation either.
Have not seen any effort from EB or MB officials to build any infra so far apart from decorating their tents and feeding biriyani and egg rice during club election-- This is what I have more or less said, both the clubs and the federation are equally guilty of the demise of football in the country and yes, nowadays the Big Two have not done anything to build infra. You have not disproved my main points--the question of ATK's providing infra, fan culture, youth teams. This is not what I have invented on the spur of the moment but what many members, including veterans, have said at different times in the forum
"Do not ever try to dig at me for what I know from my experience."--in common parlance, this sentence would count as threat I think...it seems that your experience can not be challenged by any other person. Certainly I, as a novice, am not in any way qualified to challenge you but someone might have even greater experience of Indian football than you.
All that you said in your post is that you know from personal experience many things which happens in Indian football but are never brought to the surface and your being associated with football academies gives you the right to know more about our football ecosystem than me -- a person whom you hardly know.
I wish you well and am extremely sorry to have disturbed your composure and evoked such a reaction from you...apologies!!
Once FSDL realises that they can't make any more money from indian football let's see what happens to ISL clubs apart from BFC and FC Goa . These clubs don't even have proper youth teams , all they do is pay FSDL expecting huge profits,say let's football for 2 months and disappear for rest of the year . Also Once relegation starts they will shutdown one by one .
They will be there...just survive or exist or stay afloat. Just that. But with a good management with vision, can do more. I am not saying about a corporate management. But a young (not in an age sense) vibrant management with no other hidden agendas.
Is this how it happens ?? I thought that it's ATK who just appended MB with their name and completely running the show avoiding the MB people.
Both the clubs should be in the lines of borussia dortmund model . They should list up shares for funding .With miliions of fanbase and also with good sponsors they won't be finding difficulties to raise funds .If they can do this ,the clubs will truly be people's clubs .