> Arsenalkid700 said:
> > munna21977 said:
> > We need clubs like Pune FC, not some corporate on crutches of no relegation.
>
>
But we dont and if you look at the 2nd Division clubs none of them are close. Just face it, we have no clubs below I-League that can lead us long-term. It is just not viable. We thought that with United Sikkim but look at how that has turned out. Barely any fans go to the games anymore in Sikkim.
I agree this is stupid and honestly I dont think that either AIFF or IMG is making the right decision. This IMG-League is a crap idea as the fans will just follow that and look away from the I-League (they will, just like those American soccer fans who will turn out in numbers for Barcelona or Manchester United when they play here in the summer but then once they are gone, it is back to "real soccer"). While the corporate idea is fucked up as well but at least these corporates will spend (expected). And again, they wont come if they could be relegated. That is money down the drain.
I see your point of view but it is just not viable.
Guys wake up ...
Pune FC is a corporate type club too . The Peninsula group are Mumbai based, for strategic reasons they picked Pune and have done a reasonably good job in terms of Academy development , practice ground and 1st team.
They have no fans ( those who pay to watch their games ) , they have no notable merchandise sales and have struggled to get sponsors ( Adidas gives free kit, Golds allow use of gym , and Venky's amount is nominal ) .
Peninsula are spending a lot of money each year and have realized the location of the stadium and the lack of connect with Pune people has been tough hurdle to conquer.
No-one he knew the club thought United Sikkim would survive !!
They were 4-5 months late in jan 2012 with payments which led to the exodus of players like Sushil, Renedy and later followed by Govin, Thoi, Basant , Quinten , Daniel Bidemi etc.
De Ridder had a 'solution' of building a team with a fraction of the budget that most I-league teams manage on, by conducting open trials in footballing hotbeds & adding a few choice seniors & loan moves.
But when you entrust a man who believes there is no midfield in Indian play so it is better to go with a 5-0-5 or 4-2-4 formation ( he said this in a conversation ) !! then u know the season is going to end in tears.
as for Shillong Lajong beating a new corporate 10-0 !! please , Shillong Lajong couldn't beat USFC without the refs help & got relegated from the Shillong Premier League. They haven't paid their foreigners and still owe players from last year . Their fan base has decreased because they got complacent and hired Des Bulpin ! . The investors are looking to sell & are considering bidding for the Delhi franchise to have an Anglian Delhi FC
Salgaocars backed out of investing in youth development and a practice complex/academy etc due to the Central Govt mining ban , lets face it Dempo, Salgaocar , Pune FC , Mumbai FC are all corporate teams..... big companies spending a fraction of their funds on a football team.
Having no relegation ( they might still allow promotion/expansion), will ensure the new corporate clubs ( Jindal, Dodsal/Mumbai Tigers , etc) will build stadiums, academy's and training grounds which NO I-LEAGUE clubs have .
The current talks are that if no relegation for NEW teams then this should cross over to the other teams , on the condition that they too catch up with the requirements and spend on the same. Those that comply will be given the safety net. The safety net will ensure clubs like Salgaocar , Pune FC ,Dempo etc to slash their wage bills and divert a significant amount , or the recommended 30% of budget on youth development.
More will be clarified next week.
Let's face it, we need top training facilities for the National academies and Elite academies and National team.
Rob Baan & Kushal Das were in Pune last week and were hoping that the new DSK facilities will be able to host the Elite Academy or the NAtional team camps. If the trade off is a 3yr safety net for something that will benefit Indian football for a lot longer , then it's an obvious choice.
Hm, I am inclined to agree with @gaffertape which is something I have been seeing myself doing a lot lately. Which is weird. Usual we disagree with each other
Anyway, I do with him on this instance. I am not sure I agree with the Pune FC being a corporate club but I do agree with what he said in terms of Pune as a market. Peninsula took a gamble and they failed. The fact that Peninsula is still willing to fund the team is amazing to me. The losses must be staggering.
And again, gaffertape says what I also said. We have all these clubs who have no proper stadium, no proper front offices, no desire for youth development at all, and lack of paying the salaries on time. This is what we have, and we expect to get better with this?
However, I still disagree with the direct team approach. I would rather the AIFF start a new franchise league than just allow 2 random teams in. However I do understand the trouble with starting it and restrictions.
I do like the rumor though that if the current clubs are willing to up their standards to the ones of the direct teams then they can get no relegation. If they deserve it then I dont mind at all.
Fatorda stadium has been locked for outsiders with big banners saying " Trespassers will be prosecuted. Also two guards stationed at each entry point. I wonder whats cooking inside. We may either get a rude shock or a great surprise. Lets wait and see what comes out.
@gaffertape ; @Arsenalkid700 Corporate club will play at Balewadi Stadium Right!!!! or worse- wait for Cooperage ground Mumbai to finish their renovation. Thats what Air India and ONGC are doing right now.No Corporate Club have any stadium of their own. Nor can they build any facility in 2-3 years from now. every club will have an intention on paper to build stadium but they will not as it is very expensive.
the truth is that no Corporate club will build any stadium. at best they can host some training facilities like Pailan Group or Fr Agnel School Vashi. Even ONGC or Tata or HAL can provide some basic training infrastructure in their townships. I agree with gaffertape that everybody is a corporate une FC or Dempo. Why this kolaveri D about bidding for two new corporate clubs. Forget abt stadiums-imaginary stadium will stay on paper for 3 years. Why no relegation lollypop offered to 2 corporate clubs?
> Arsenalkid700 said:
> Hm, I am inclined to agree with @gaffertape which is something I have been seeing myself doing a lot lately. Which is weird. Usual we disagree with each other
I would rather the AIFF start a new franchise league than just allow 2 random teams in. However I do understand the trouble with starting it and restrictions.
I do like the rumor though that if the current clubs are willing to up their standards to the ones of the direct teams then they can get no relegation. If they deserve it then I dont mind at all.
I am worried about confusion with mix-match. relegation threatened club playing with no relegation guaranteed club
> munna21977 said:
> @gaffertape ; @Arsenalkid700 Corporate club will play at Balewadi Stadium Right!!!! or worse- wait for Cooperage ground Mumbai to finish their renovation. Thats what Air India and ONGC are doing right now.No Corporate Club have any stadium of their own. Nor can they build any facility in 2-3 years from now. every club will have an intention on paper to build stadium but they will not as it is very expensive.
the truth is that no Corporate club will build any stadium. at best they can host some training facilities like Pailan Group or Fr Agnel School Vashi. Even ONGC or Tata or HAL can provide some basic training infrastructure in their townships. I agree with gaffertape that everybody is a corporate une FC or Dempo. Why this kolaveri D about bidding for two new corporate clubs. Forget abt stadiums-imaginary stadium will stay on paper for 3 years. Why no relegation lollypop offered to 2 corporate clubs?
It is possible if profitable. It has not happened and I understand that everyone here is very suspect over that ever happening. I understand the reasons perfectly but I believe that it can change. Dodsal will come in as one of the richest teams in I-League. If they see that they can get a profit then they can make a stadium. Of course that wont be for another 5-10 years however.
I also believe that Dodsal can get the Cooperage Ground ready quicker. Nothing is impossible.
> munna21977 said:
> > Arsenalkid700 said:
> > Hm, I am inclined to agree with @gaffertape which is something I have been seeing myself doing a lot lately. Which is weird. Usual we disagree with each other
I would rather the AIFF start a new franchise league than just allow 2 random teams in. However I do understand the trouble with starting it and restrictions.
I do like the rumor though that if the current clubs are willing to up their standards to the ones of the direct teams then they can get no relegation. If they deserve it then I dont mind at all.
I am worried about confusion with mix-match. relegation threatened club playing with no relegation guaranteed club
>
>
That is my worry to and why I am not so happy with this idea by AIFF. Again, I would rather AIFF create a brand new franchise league but unlike the IMG-League have this league be a 5-6 month affair with play-offs and a grand final.
You can then also use the profits that could come out of this league (would take a few years FYI) and create an AIFF Cup which would be the brand-new Indian version of the FA Cup.
> Arsenalkid700 said:the truth is that no Corporate club will build any stadium. at best they can host some training facilities like Pailan Group or Fr Agnel School Vashi. Even ONGC or Tata or HAL can provide some basic training infrastructure in their townships. I agree with gaffertape that everybody is a corporate une FC or Dempo. Why this kolaveri D about bidding for two new corporate clubs. Forget abt stadiums-imaginary stadium will stay on paper for 3 years. Why no relegation lollypop offered to 2 corporate clubs?
>
>
It is possible if profitable. It has not happened and I understand that everyone here is very suspect over that ever happening. I understand the reasons perfectly but I believe that it can change. Dodsal will come in as one of the richest teams in I-League. If they see that they can get a profit then they can make a stadium. Of course that wont be for another 5-10 years however.
I also believe that Dodsal can get the Cooperage Ground ready quicker. Nothing is impossible.
Dodsal have land in Vashi /Navi Mumbai and will develop facilities there. Cooperage is not worth developing for a club , too much legal issues, too expensive and too far away from the football fans of Mumbai. No way that people will travel from Borivali area of North Mumbai to Coopergae to watch I-League games regularly.
DSK Shivajians had some promising meetings with Baan & Kushal Das last week, with regards to stadium and training grounds for National teams...
Chennai United FC just starting to take shape. They are in 3rd Division now, but they have plans to build a team for I-League 2nd Division team next season. Although Sunando Dhar has pushed them to make a direct bid, they are a bit hesitant , and will play the waiting game.
Hm, some from the looks of it, the AIFF are more concerned about the promise of facilities at this point. While I agree with the standpoint 100% I still feel that the AIFF should also give importance to the potential the market the team is/will be based in and how it would do.
I mean, look at Chennai. I am glad that there is a club in Chennai that has the potential to benefit Indian football long-term but is it a viable market. First off, where would they play? And second, how many fans would they get per game?
Same can be asked with DSK and Dodsal (or Mumbai Tigers). I know DSK will have the Balewadi Stadium can they actually do what Pune FC have been failing to do for the last 5-6 years and tap into the Pune market and get fans. Can Dodsal actually do that in Mumbai?
I am all for allowing direct entry for teams that promise the extravagant facilities but we should also focus on the markets and focus on who the target audience is and how many people would regularly attend a match for that team.
I dont want to see a Dodsal FC game and only 4,000-5,000 people are there, I want to see actual growth in attendance. We are allowing you into the league directly so that should be the expectation.
Chennai United FC just starting to take shape. They are in 3rd Division now, but they have plans to build a team for I-League 2nd Division team next season. Although Sunando Dhar has pushed them to make a direct bid, they are a bit hesitant , and will play the waiting game.
Playing wait and watch game is good for their club.... hopefully i see a club playing from my home state...
this direct entry is not the one which will go good with present clubs....
these clubs allowed the case of arrows because they could form future core of national team and also they are rookies so not gonna be force to threaten the position of existent clubs
Comments
> Arsenalkid700 said:
> > munna21977 said:
> > We need clubs like Pune FC, not some corporate on crutches of no relegation.
>
>
Hm, I am inclined to agree with @gaffertape which is something I have been seeing myself doing a lot lately. Which is weird. Usual we disagree with each other
Fatorda stadium has been locked for outsiders with big banners saying " Trespassers will be prosecuted. Also two guards stationed at each entry point. I wonder whats cooking inside. We may either get a rude shock or a great surprise. Lets wait and see what comes out.
@gaffertape ; @Arsenalkid700 Corporate club will play at Balewadi Stadium Right!!!! or worse- wait for Cooperage ground Mumbai to finish their renovation. Thats what Air India and ONGC are doing right now.No Corporate Club have any stadium of their own. Nor can they build any facility in 2-3 years from now. every club will have an intention on paper to build stadium but they will not as it is very expensive.
the truth is that no Corporate club will build any stadium. at best they can host some training facilities like Pailan Group or Fr Agnel School Vashi. Even ONGC or Tata or HAL can provide some basic training infrastructure in their townships. I agree with gaffertape that everybody is a corporate une FC or Dempo. Why this kolaveri D about bidding for two new corporate clubs. Forget abt stadiums-imaginary stadium will stay on paper for 3 years. Why no relegation lollypop offered to 2 corporate clubs?
> Arsenalkid700 said:
> Hm, I am inclined to agree with @gaffertape which is something I have been seeing myself doing a lot lately. Which is weird. Usual we disagree with each other
I would rather the AIFF start a new franchise league than just allow 2 random teams in. However I do understand the trouble with starting it and restrictions.
I am worried about confusion with mix-match. relegation threatened club playing with no relegation guaranteed club
> munna21977 said:
> @gaffertape ; @Arsenalkid700 Corporate club will play at Balewadi Stadium Right!!!! or worse- wait for Cooperage ground Mumbai to finish their renovation. Thats what Air India and ONGC are doing right now.No Corporate Club have any stadium of their own. Nor can they build any facility in 2-3 years from now. every club will have an intention on paper to build stadium but they will not as it is very expensive.
the truth is that no Corporate club will build any stadium. at best they can host some training facilities like Pailan Group or Fr Agnel School Vashi. Even ONGC or Tata or HAL can provide some basic training infrastructure in their townships. I agree with gaffertape that everybody is a corporate une FC or Dempo. Why this kolaveri D about bidding for two new corporate clubs. Forget abt stadiums-imaginary stadium will stay on paper for 3 years. Why no relegation lollypop offered to 2 corporate clubs?
> munna21977 said:
> > Arsenalkid700 said:
> > Hm, I am inclined to agree with @gaffertape which is something I have been seeing myself doing a lot lately. Which is weird. Usual we disagree with each other
I would rather the AIFF start a new franchise league than just allow 2 random teams in. However I do understand the trouble with starting it and restrictions.
I am worried about confusion with mix-match. relegation threatened club playing with no relegation guaranteed club
>
>
> Arsenalkid700 said:the truth is that no Corporate club will build any stadium. at best they can host some training facilities like Pailan Group or Fr Agnel School Vashi. Even ONGC or Tata or HAL can provide some basic training infrastructure in their townships. I agree with gaffertape that everybody is a corporate une FC or Dempo. Why this kolaveri D about bidding for two new corporate clubs. Forget abt stadiums-imaginary stadium will stay on paper for 3 years. Why no relegation lollypop offered to 2 corporate clubs?
>
>
Hm, some from the looks of it, the AIFF are more concerned about the promise of facilities at this point. While I agree with the standpoint 100% I still feel that the AIFF should also give importance to the potential the market the team is/will be based in and how it would do.
> gaffertape said: