<div><br></div><div>as long as the are better than the indians, they do get a lot to learn<br><br>A few are not,like Koko sakibo. All he has is physique. <br></div>
<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I think in the original discussion players like Uga, Ranty, Odafa were being discussed to be shit in foreign leagues. I am not sure it matters in anyway</div>
<div><br></div><div>as long as the are better than the indians, they do get a lot to learn<br><br>A few are not,like Koko sakibo. All he has is physique. <br></div>
<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I think in the original discussion players like Uga, Ranty, Odafa were being discussed to be shit in foreign leagues. I am not sure it matters in anyway</div>
<br><div><br></div><div>It was discussed that they were shit in general and dont add anything to the I-League. Ranti adds quality but Uga and Odafa add nothing and have been adding nothing for years. And the only reason they are here is because of 2 reasons:</div><div><br></div><div>1) The pay here is actually high compared to other countries.</div><div><br></div><div>2) The I-League clubs dont have any ambition to increase the standard of play.</div><div><br></div><div>Every year it is the same old crap and I can tell we can spend to get even better foreigners as I hear about these wages all the time but then what happens? "Amos Omeje makes his debut for Air India" or "Chidi Edeh signs for East Bengal". We spend on low-lives who failed domestically and now think they can just walts into India and be successful. That is true for them but for Indian football it is not. We wont improve at all with these types of players or if we keep spending more than there value on them.</div><div><br></div><div>Guys like Carlos Hernandez may have not added much in terms of their on-field play but off it they have given us some good moments. People in Australia now know we have a league. Rohan Ricketts signing brought out the dark story of Dempo. </div><div><br></div><div>Bilal Narjjian (spelling) showed us that we are far away from ever having good skillful forwards, foreign and Indian. Angel Berlanga also did the same, showing how only 1 signing can change the fortunes of one club. </div><div><br></div><div>These signings increase the level of play for our football on the field and off it.</div>
if you tell me odafa have no skills, yet hernandez gives us 'good moments', I don't see any more reason to waste my time typing shit here. <div><br></div><div>(apparently becoz ppl in aus now know we have a league and we sud be thankful to them for knowing about the 'poor' Indians and their league)</div>
if you tell me odafa have no skills, yet hernandez gives us 'good moments', I don't see any more reason to waste my time typing shit here. </font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; ">(apparently becoz ppl in aus now know we have a league and we sud be thankful to them for knowing about the 'poor' Indians and their league)</div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">
</font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">You dont get it do you? This is only the beginning. We need to increase the awareness of the league and expose the corruption. What I meant when I said that Hernandez gets people to notice us in Australia is that the better foreigners we get the more popular the league can get not only in India but also abroad and that is a huge thing.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Why do big clubs sign Japanese or African footballers? Not because they are so good but because they know that they can break into a specific market. Now I am saying that we will do the same thing. We are light years away from that but the fact that we are known is a good thing and if we can keep this up then more attention will be payed to how the league is ran and how we can profit from this attention.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">When Densil Theobald signed with Dempo, yes it was a bit of a disaster on the field (or was it? Thank you Rohan for exposing the corruption of Dempo... however Densil was not so great when you think about it.) but he got us noticed in the Caribbean. Probably not mainstream but it is something.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">As for Odafa. I am guessing that you are defending him as you are a supporter of the shit ran club known as Mohun Bagan but to the outsider he is a worthless footballer who's only skill is the ability is to do a couple of step overs and shoot. I have only seen maybe 2 goals that I thought were good. The free-kick against Pune being my favorite. Other than that he is useless. Put him in any other club that can not provide the service of Mohun Bagan or Churchill Brothers and you will see he is powerless. Just a overpaid man running around on the pitch scoring from simple stepovers against shit Indian goalkeepers.</font></div>
<div><span style="font-size: small;"> I have only seen maybe 2 goals that I thought were good. The free-kick against Pune being my favorite. Other than that he is useless. </span><br>
<br></div><div><br></div><div>this probably shows wikipedia skills dont necessary translate into football appreciation skills, and how much football does a so-called 'Indian' football fan watches.</div><div><br></div><div>p.s. scoring a goal past 4 defenders wont count because these are a series of 'simple' step-overs</div>
</font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><span style="font-size: small;"> I have only seen maybe 2 goals that I thought were good. The free-kick against Pune being my favorite. Other than that he is useless. </span><br>
<br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; ">this probably shows wikipedia skills dont necessary translate into football appreciation skills, and how much football does a so-called 'Indian' football fan watches.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; ">p.s. scoring a goal past 4 defenders wont count because these are a series of 'simple' step-overs</div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">
</font><br><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; ">Really, so I counter your argument and the best you can come up with is an attack against me because I edit wikipedia. Your better than that Rudra. Way better.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Anyway, if I must elaborate further I will. What is the difference between Odafa Okolie and Ranti Martins? Both players are Nigerians coming to India at young ages (or so we are told). They also have been constant top scorers in the I-League for more than 6 seasons. They are also proven at more than one club and they are more overpaid than they would be in any other country in the world.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">So what is the difference? In my opinion, when I look at Ranti, I see the player who in the past was offered a look at by the Ghanaian youth team AND the Nigerian youth team. Yes most of his goals are products of being highly aided by his teammates but his other goals are complete products of his which he does uses an arsenal of skill which includes his disastrous pace, his mesmerizing runs, and his amazing shooting ability. He does not just beat the average I-League defense because they are weak but because he proves just how bad they are, time and time again. And not only does his abilities include his power to score but also his ability to help his teammates and get them involved in the game. Why is it that CK Vineeth is involved a lot in I-League games? Martins is not a Chidi Edeh type of player who will take the ball and just fire when needed. He will get his teammates involved and in return get set-up for a goal. </font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Meanwhile you have Odafa who has the same goal scoring aspects of Ranti Martins. A free spirit who has the defense shitting themselves when they see him. But when it comes to his teammates I dont see that. He is not as selfish as Chidi Edeh (I dont think anyone will ever beat that) but how does he help his team at all. CS Sabeeth has fallen despite him getting playing time. Why? Because whenever he plays he is forced out wide and to the midfield. At least Tolgay Ozbey has the ability to say "fuck that" and forced himself back into the strikers role alongside Odafa and I will admit that it has worked with both doing very well. Meanwhile to add to Odafa's traits he has a tendency to lose it when things do not go his way. He does not like it, he expects to be treated as a king and if not then all should feel his force. Sadly that is not how things work in football and he has paid for that a few times.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">These are the reasons why Ranti Martins has had invites for trials abroad in Europe while Odafa Okolie has had invites to the AIFF Disciplinary Board. So in the end there is more to it than just the goals for why I see Martins as a player who could potentially make it in Japan or America and why I see Odafa being a waste in the 2nd Divisions in these countries.</font></div>
Anyway going back to the main discussion from yesterday (Indian time). The discussion was about the type of foreigners we have in India. <div><br></div><div>You have the ones who have made news headlines, not just in India but sometimes abroad (basically better than the average Indian foreigner), in Carlos Hernandez, Quinton Jacobs, Katsumi Yusa, Edinho Junior, and Bilal Narjjain, Angel Berlanga</div><div><br></div><div>And then you have the same old crap like Junior Ombagbemiro, Amos Omeje, Lamine Tamba, Koko Sakibo, Uga Okpara, Penn Orji, Chidi Edeh, David Opara, Yusif Yakubu, Evans Quao, Hassan Odeola, Eric Brown, Muritala Ali, Chika Wali, Josimar, Salau Nurudeen, Kayne Vincent, Seiya Sugishita, Pablo Rodrigues, and John Landa. </div><div><br></div><div>How do any of these guys provide anything to <b>improve Indian football</b>. I am fine with Luciano Sabrosa, Beto, Henry Antchouet, Johnny Menyongar, Ryuji Sueoka, Balal Arezou, Zohib Amiri, Boima Karpeh, and John Wilkinson etc because obviously with 4 foreign slots available, no team will have the money to buy 4 Hernandez's or Edinho's. You will need to fill them up and these guys are "respectable".</div><div><br></div><div>That is why when I come here and read the rumors of Katsumi Yusa moving to Kolkata or Beto moving to Kolkata, or Boima staying at Pune I dont mind. They are good footballers who do have there fans and do increase the standing of the I-League. But when I read about Chidi Edeh I wonder "WTF is he still here?" </div><div><br></div><div>So it is not that I am not a so called "Indian" football fan or that I wikipedia a lot, I am just frustrated with the lack of proper foreigners. We have people calling for more foreign slots yet we can not use the current ones to proper use. What is the point of that?</div><div><br></div><div>There I am seeing teams in the 3rd tier of American soccer signing some Brazilian's who were 2nd or 3rd tier players in Brazil or Euro's from the 2nd tier of Belgium while here I am in India, where the clubs have more financial power (supposedly... salary wise) where the best we can do is some Nigerian we find on facebook. And we want to improve. Hell no! That wont happen in your dreams unless the overall mentality changes. Till then we must be happy where we are. Good luck with that.</div>
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">To comment on what Arsenalkid has been commenting about the ways of Indian Football and the arrival of the substandard foreigners vis-a-vis his favourite MLS(!!!) - firstly he has to see things in perspective.</font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"> As I have said time and again, the only difference between Odafa and Ranti is that the latter is a better header - thats about it. If Ranti Martins was offered a contract beginning of the year by Bagan, even if it was much higher than what Odaafa gets in Bagan, he wudnt have moved to Bagan - b'coz he is extremely shrewd knowingly fully well that Bagan doesn't have the midfield to feed him goal bound passes! Think through it - most of Ranti's achievement in Dempo should be attributed to the compact midfield that Dempo used to boast of(not now ofcourse!); now with all these ageing legs in Dempo midfield, Ranti rightly switched to Prayag(added to it obviously the lure of money); now look at Odafa - a non existent Bagan midfield for the last couple of years, a porous backline(till the time Karim came in) and no support striker(Tolgay is a non playing player like Tennis for most of the year!), and whenever he is in rival defence - if u watch any match on the TV u would see all four defenders either latching/clinging on to him or hacking him down! Most of the goal he has scored in the last couple of years were on his own - with support most of the times from only Rahim Nabi. </font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Regarding his on/off field behaviour - he is one of the best team man nowadays, having always guiding youngsters like Sabeeth(sabeeth himself has acknowledged it), Bagan's new pillar at the heart of the defence - Eche. So he has come a long way in terms of mentoring youngsters these days - he doesnt throw tantrums these days. And if u see his records, he has recvd lesser number of Yellow cards then say a Mehtab Hossain/Opkara! whereas Ranti is more reserved and havent heard any Prayag player talking highly about his involvement in Team building.</font></div></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Lastly, we all know the antics which Ranti used to play till a few years back just prior to the new signing season just to hoodwink EB/Bagan officials - by saying that he is expecting some offers from European Clubs and hence wud be leaving India - only to attract more attention from these foolish Kolkata recruiters and then finally deciding to stay with Dempo(with a higher pay cheque!)! That was his ploy! Odafa never does this....</font></div>
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">I love your style of writing @soccerlover. Very nice. Right to the point and the hidden criticism of East Bengal within. Very sneaky.</font><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Now then, in my rebuttal. When have I ever mentioned MLS. Besides that I can see Ranti Martins doing well in MLS I have never mentioned it or the arrival of subpar foreigners in it. I did mention the arrival of foreigners to the USL Pro however which is the 3rd tier of US Soccer whereas the MLS is tier 1. Now why did I mention the USL Pro in this discussion? Well to put it in sharp terms, I can see the USL Pro beating I-League very soon. When I watched the 2012 USL Pro matches it equal to watching an I-League match and so far in the short, short 2013 season it appears the same but with an added twist of better foreigners. Now would it be sad if the 3rd tier of US Soccer was the overtake the 1st tier of Indian football. To the AIFF not at all.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Now back to what you said. Bullshit about Ranti at Dempo and an obvious show defense for a player on your favorite team. Dempo's midfield has not changed that much at all. In fact it has barely changed since last season. The problem with Dempo this season is internal and in the striking department. If they had Ranti Martins still I bet you they would still be well into this I-League title race.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">As for you analysis on the Prayag and Bagan midfield I am surprised you say that. Bagan easily has a better midfield than Prayag. Other than Lalkamal, Hernandez, and CK Vineeth what else has really shown brightly in that midfield. Meanwhile at Mohun Bagan you do have a good midfield with Jacobs, Mathani, and actually Devadas has actually been pretty good this season along with Jewel Raja. Meanwhile Wadoo has not been a disaster like Lester Fernandez and Lalrin Fela may have been a little blemish on the roster. As was Stanley who I thought just needed more time.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Off the field. Well I would like to be convinced first. To do that I like to actually see him link-up with other players instead of shooting like a Chidi Edeh. I cant wait for that. Tell me when it happens.</font></div>
Comments
<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I think in the original discussion players like Uga, Ranty, Odafa were being discussed to be shit in foreign leagues. I am not sure it matters in anyway</div>
<br><div><br></div><div>It was discussed that they were shit in general and dont add anything to the I-League. Ranti adds quality but Uga and Odafa add nothing and have been adding nothing for years. And the only reason they are here is because of 2 reasons:</div><div><br></div><div>1) The pay here is actually high compared to other countries.</div><div><br></div><div>2) The I-League clubs dont have any ambition to increase the standard of play.</div><div><br></div><div>Every year it is the same old crap and I can tell we can spend to get even better foreigners as I hear about these wages all the time but then what happens? "Amos Omeje makes his debut for Air India" or "Chidi Edeh signs for East Bengal". We spend on low-lives who failed domestically and now think they can just walts into India and be successful. That is true for them but for Indian football it is not. We wont improve at all with these types of players or if we keep spending more than there value on them.</div><div><br></div><div>Guys like Carlos Hernandez may have not added much in terms of their on-field play but off it they have given us some good moments. People in Australia now know we have a league. Rohan Ricketts signing brought out the dark story of Dempo. </div><div><br></div><div>Bilal Narjjian (spelling) showed us that we are far away from ever having good skillful forwards, foreign and Indian. Angel Berlanga also did the same, showing how only 1 signing can change the fortunes of one club. </div><div><br></div><div>These signings increase the level of play for our football on the field and off it.</div>
<br></div><div><br></div><div>this probably shows wikipedia skills dont necessary translate into football appreciation skills, and how much football does a so-called 'Indian' football fan watches.</div><div><br></div><div>p.s. scoring a goal past 4 defenders wont count because these are a series of 'simple' step-overs</div>
</font><br><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; ">Really, so I counter your argument and the best you can come up with is an attack against me because I edit wikipedia. Your better than that Rudra. Way better.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Anyway, if I must elaborate further I will. What is the difference between Odafa Okolie and Ranti Martins? Both players are Nigerians coming to India at young ages (or so we are told). They also have been constant top scorers in the I-League for more than 6 seasons. They are also proven at more than one club and they are more overpaid than they would be in any other country in the world.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">So what is the difference? In my opinion, when I look at Ranti, I see the player who in the past was offered a look at by the Ghanaian youth team AND the Nigerian youth team. Yes most of his goals are products of being highly aided by his teammates but his other goals are complete products of his which he does uses an arsenal of skill which includes his disastrous pace, his mesmerizing runs, and his amazing shooting ability. He does not just beat the average I-League defense because they are weak but because he proves just how bad they are, time and time again. And not only does his abilities include his power to score but also his ability to help his teammates and get them involved in the game. Why is it that CK Vineeth is involved a lot in I-League games? Martins is not a Chidi Edeh type of player who will take the ball and just fire when needed. He will get his teammates involved and in return get set-up for a goal. </font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Meanwhile you have Odafa who has the same goal scoring aspects of Ranti Martins. A free spirit who has the defense shitting themselves when they see him. But when it comes to his teammates I dont see that. He is not as selfish as Chidi Edeh (I dont think anyone will ever beat that) but how does he help his team at all. CS Sabeeth has fallen despite him getting playing time. Why? Because whenever he plays he is forced out wide and to the midfield. At least Tolgay Ozbey has the ability to say "fuck that" and forced himself back into the strikers role alongside Odafa and I will admit that it has worked with both doing very well. Meanwhile to add to Odafa's traits he has a tendency to lose it when things do not go his way. He does not like it, he expects to be treated as a king and if not then all should feel his force. Sadly that is not how things work in football and he has paid for that a few times.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">These are the reasons why Ranti Martins has had invites for trials abroad in Europe while Odafa Okolie has had invites to the AIFF Disciplinary Board. So in the end there is more to it than just the goals for why I see Martins as a player who could potentially make it in Japan or America and why I see Odafa being a waste in the 2nd Divisions in these countries.</font></div>
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