I want to read the debate rather than participate, as I dont have strong opinion about it. I like both the models....I am bit inclined on continuing rel-pro system, but I won't be very unhappy if its stopped. So, want to join the audience. However, in case we dont have people turning up for the debate, I can put forward arguments for why pro-rel might have some advantages (although I hope I wont be required)...
<br><div><br></div><div>Its cool. I am confident we shall have others also put up valid non "Rest of the world does it" reasons to.</div>
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Guidelines :</font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; ">Be there around 9.30-10.00.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Clearly, write down your arguments pointwise</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Give examples when needed</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Wait for other members to post their arguments and then start the debate</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">The posts should only concern why or why not I League should have a relegation-promotion system. At 12:30 the topic will be closed, so no one can post after that.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Please resume the debate in a professional way, without attacking each other. Only challenge the arguments, not the person.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">Happy debating</font></div>
Just a quick friendly reminder... have sources to back up you point about why or why not to have pro/rel.<div><br></div><div>Also for a few members...</div><div><br></div><div>The definition of a SPORTS franchise is: A team that <span style="font-size: 10pt; ">has territorial rights, usually exclusive territories large enough to cover major metropolitan areas, so that they have no local rivals. New teams may enter the competition only by a vote of current members; typically, a new place is put up for bid by would-be owners. This system is sometimes called a "franchise system" in the UK. It was introduced in baseball with the formation of the National League in 1876 and later adopted by the other North American leagues.</span></div><div><span style="font-size: 10pt; "><br></span></div><div>Although member clubs are corporate entities separate from their leagues, they operate only under league auspices. Partly because that relationship is so close, partly because the four major team sports leagues represent the top level of play in the world, North American teams almost never play competitive games against outside opponents. National Hockey League (NHL) and National Basketball Association (NBA) teams have played against European hockey and basketball teams in preseason exhibitions. The North American league, rather than any sport governing body, determines the playing rules and scoring rules of its game, and the rules under which players join and change teams.</div><div>The teams are organized with a view to each major city having a team to support. Only the largest cities have more than one team. As such the teams are often referred to as franchises. Even though they are not technically franchises in a business sense, the league is organised in a way that assures teams continued existence in the league from year to year, which fosters an ongoing connection with the team's supporters. On occasion a league may decide to grow the sport by admitting a new expansion team into the league.</div><div><br></div><div>Have fun </div>
football in india is now a goa-lolkata affair, thats why the game doesn't grow. we want as many teams by expansion from other states so that it becomes a pan indian league..at a point we reach where we have atleast 40 teams to compete we can divide them into 2 div of 20 each & then promotion/relgetion..so forget afc champions league as of now<div>as of now the beautiful game needs to grow...grow big</div>
So shall we begin then....<div><br></div><div>I shall wait... PLEASE who ever supports pro/rel... please go first and provide a reason and make sure it is better than "The rest of the world does it". That means nothing.</div><div><br></div><div>And............... go.</div>
football in india is now a goa-lolkata affair, thats why the game doesn't grow. we want as many teams by expansion from other states so that it becomes a pan indian league..at a point we reach where we have atleast 40 teams to compete we can divide them into 2 div of 20 each & then promotion/relgetion..so forget afc champions league as of now<div>as of now the beautiful game needs to grow...grow big</div>
<br><div><br></div><div>and how do you propose it.</div>
yes we need rel/pro system, Instead of thinking short routes we must think in long term development of league. No league has achieved success in a short term. It takes time ;<div>1. Develop infrastructure<br>2. Bring more professionalism<br>3. Crowds will begin to support<br>4. League will develope</div>
yes we need rel/pro system, Instead of thinking short routes we must think in long term development of league. No league has achieved success in a short term. It takes time ;<div>1. Develop infrastructure<br>2. Bring more professionalism<br>3. Crowds will begin to support<br>4. League will develope</div>
<br><div><br></div><div>How will promotion/relegation do this? There is proof already in India and outside India that proves that all this can be done without pro/rel.</div>
I WILL REPOST THIS<div><br></div><div><span style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Geneva, 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">I am not much aware about what is the effect of promotion/relegation or the lack of it <br> around the world. But I would put forward my thoughts on why this cannot work in India </span><b style="font-family: Geneva, 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><i>given the current scenario.</i></b><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Geneva, 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><b><i><br></i></b></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Geneva, 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><b>1. Very few I-league teams are professional. </b>This means that the clubs are not competent enough anyway. If we assure them of a place year after year, they will turn more incompetent. No motivation whatsoever remains for the weaker teams.</div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Geneva, 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Geneva, 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><b>2. How will you give chances to new clubs? </b>In this case I am assuming we have 14-16 teams and no further expansion is possible/plausible. This would mean that there is no way a new team with fresh ideas and bigger targets can join the big league</div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Geneva, 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Geneva, 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><b>3. What about the smaller teams? </b>This would mean that the 2nd Division I-League is abolished. A lot of clubs may pack up if they see no opportunity. The cannot sustain a team by playing local leagues.</div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Geneva, 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><br></div><div style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; font-size: 13px; font-family: Geneva, 'Lucida Sans Unicode', tahoma, sans-serif; vertical-align: baseline; line-height: 18px; text-align: left; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); "><b>4. Corruption </b>Weaker teams are assured of a place anyway. So they will act as the title deciders by favouring one or the other leading teams. I can clearly see rampant corruption.</div></div>
<font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">I agree but...</font><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; ">1) We have around 10 clubs that are even professional right now. That is why I want 10. And just because only a few are professional is not bad. Over time it will get better. We already see new professional teams popping up with Pune FC, Mumbai FC, United Sikkim FC and now we have a few late guests to that party like East Bengal and Dempo SC. Let it all grow slowly, the rewards will come later.</div><div style="font-family: Arial, Verdana; font-size: 10pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; "><br></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">2) Expansion would be possible but it does not help if we have a scenario like in 2010 when our best supported club Shillong Lajong and best supported in Goa (or 2nd now) Sporting Goa get relegated and ONGC FC and HAL SC are promoted. Now I will also add number 3 here... yes that would mean that the I-League 2nd Division would be gone and for good reason. The I-League 2nd Division is already a sham and we have seen from this past 2nd Division all the corruption and blame that went around. Also what is the use of a 2 month tournament. Also how many pro clubs do we have in the 2nd Division. I am talking about clubs that do better than the AFC Criteria because you and I both know that the AFC Criteria means nothing and that even a small club from Bhutan can pass the criteria. Also it seems that a few clubs are enjoying the local leagues. A bunch of clubs in Goa, Kolkata, Nagaland, Sikkim, Maharashtra are enjoying themselves. Just obvious that some local leagues are not structured right. That is all.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">4) What do you expect. Corruption will never go. Corruption shall never leave. We all saw the corruption in FIFA. Even now in CONCACAF (North America) we have corruption with the president of CONCACAF stealing $5,000,000.</font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2"><br></font></div><div><font face="Arial, Verdana" size="2">It shall never go.</font></div>
Comments
<br><div><br></div><div>Its cool. I am confident we shall have others also put up valid non "Rest of the world does it" reasons to.</div>
<br><div><br></div><div>and how do you propose it.</div>
<br><div><br></div><div>How will promotion/relegation do this? There is proof already in India and outside India that proves that all this can be done without pro/rel.</div>